Government of Wales Bill

My Lords, I beg to move Motion B standing in the name of my noble friend Lord Evans of Temple Guiting that this House do not insist on its Amendment 4, to which the Commons have disagreed, but do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 4A in lieu. I shall also speak to Motion C. The amendments concern the composition of the Assembly Commission and Assembly committees in general. As a Government, we have always recognised that having a proper political balance is critical to the future working of the Assembly, as evidenced by the provisions in Clause 29, which I shall come to shortly. We do not contest the principle that the Assembly Commission should be made up of members from different political groups. Therefore, I am pleased to be able to respond to the call to enshrine this in the Bill by offering our amendment in lieu of Amendment No. 4. It provides that standing orders should require that, as far as is reasonably practicable, no two members of the commission should be drawn from the same political group. This does not include the presiding officer who will chair the Assembly Commission. The amendment simply clarifies the intended effect of your Lordships’ amendment and provides for situations that may arise in the future when in theory there may be fewer than four political groups in the Assembly. Amendment No. 5 seeks to replace Clause 29 with a new requirement to ensure that Assembly committees have regard to party balance. The amendment shows that all sides of the House are in agreement on the key issue that committees of the new Assembly should be politically balanced. That has always been the Governmment’s intention. As I stressed on Report, the amendment does not address the situation where agreement is not reached on the composition of committees. The aim is for the Assembly to reach agreement on the size and make-up of committees. The composition of committees should not be a matter of party-political contention, but should be the product of cross-party agreement. That is clearly the most desirable situation, and it is the one that obtains here and in the other place as a matter of course. We are familiar with that process. But the reality of the electoral system for the Assembly is such that there is a risk that that may not happen. That said, the Government recognise the concern that has been expressed in your Lordships’ House and in the other place during the passage of the Bill; namely, that the provision in the Bill relating to the use of the d’Hondt formula should be explicitly worded as a fallback provision. One or two speeches were made against the entire concept, but I wish to emphasis again that the d’Hondt formula is merely a mathematical formula for resolving difficulties on the allocation of places. The noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, said: "““If using the d'Hondt system is a fall-back, why do not the Government set out primarily that the numbers of a committee and its make up are to be determined by agreement, and that in the event of disagreement the formula is to apply? ””.—[Official Report, 19/4/06; col. 1136.]" The noble Lord, Lord Henley, speaking for the Official Opposition, expressed concern that Clause 29 as drafted required the Assembly to contract out rather than contract in to d’Hondt. He wanted greater emphasis on the use of the formula as a fallback. That is what this amendment delivers, and I believe that with this amendment, noble Lords will be reassured that that is expressly the intention. The other concern expressed during debates on this clause was that it disadvantages smaller parties and independent Members. In response, I point out that this amendment reinstates the provisions to ensure that independent Members and those belonging to smaller parties—I want to give that assurance to the noble Lord, Lord Elis-Thomas, who is in his place—are entitled to a place on a committee, subject to there being enough committee places to make that possible. We believe that that is crucial to safeguard the interests of independent Members and those who represent smaller political parties. I hope that in listening to both your Lordships’ House and the other place, we have satisfied the concerns expressed while ensuring that the Bill gives direction as to what should happen in the event that parties within the Assembly fail to reach a consensus. There were two concerns. The first is what to do about smaller parties and how to recognise that with four main parties, very small committees raise problems. The d’Hondt formula works perfectly with a committee of 10 and the present composition of the Assembly. It provides exactly the right proportions between the parties. The difficulty would be if the Assembly set up smaller committees. However, the Assembly will be mindful that, like all parliamentary assemblies, it wants to guarantee that its committees properly and fairly reflect its composition. Secondly, there was rather more suspicion about the d’Hondt formula than was justified. It is merely a mathematical formula very widely used across the known democratic world to resolve the technical problem of how to produce fractions of a member and round them up into proper representation on a committee. The concern expressed was that the Government appeared to put such store by the d’Hondt formula that it was elevated to a significant principle in the Bill rather than being a mechanism for resolving difficulties. It is not a principle. I emphasise again that it is a fall-back position when agreement cannot be reached. I hope that noble Lords will recognise that our amendments resolve that position and meet the two main objections raised at previous stages. Moved, That this House do not insist on its Amendment 4 to which the Commons have disagreed, but do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 4A in lieu.—(Lord Davies of Oldham.) 4.30 pm