Commons Bill [Lords]

This is an important debate. We had a similar debate in Committee, and if nothing is done to amend the clause, the Bill could come into disrepute. As the clause stands, it will impede the natural husbandry of common land and, more importantly, it will pose several problematic legal conundrums. I referred to one in an intervention in the remarks by the right hon. Member for Penrith and The Border (David Maclean). Clearly, no farmer could with any confidence rely on an insurance policy if there was an imminent danger that he knew of and did nothing about. The example given was to do with a stone wall that might be on the verge of collapse, but there are many others, such as to do with disused mine shafts or holes that appear in bogs, all of which are daily occurrences on the uplands. The hon. Member for Hexham (Mr. Atkinson) has ingeniously given the Minister what appears to be a lifeline. The point raised is important. In debate in Committee with the Minister’s predecessor—who, I might be so bold as to say, was also a reasonable man—he would not accede on this, which I could not understand because just using the words de minimis without some force behind them does not take us very far. What was said was that the offender could be investigated and taken to court and then the case would be thrown out. That is all well and good, but what about all the time, money and effort that are put into bringing that person to court before it was thrown out because it was de minimis? That is a scandalous way of looking at things. We are making law here; we are making law that will probably last for the next 50, 60 or more years. I urge the Minister to consider the good sense of the arguments in this case. He has to do something—through regulation, or however else he might do it. Otherwise, there is a potential problem in this part of the Bill, which, as I have said, would bring it into disrepute. That would be a great shame, because I, along with other Members in all parts of the House, commend much of the Bill, but this is a flaw that we will all come to regret, as with the dangerous dogs legislation.