Commons Bill [Lords]

I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for South-East Cambridgeshire (Mr. Paice), who stressed the importance of managing the different interests, needs and conflicts in the countryside. I want to press that line of thinking with the Minister. Government amendments Nos. 77 and 78 provide a discretionary power to ensure that clause 38 does not revive controls that ceased under section 194 of the Law of Property Act 1925. The Minister wrote helpfully to all members of the Committee on 23 June 2006. He said that he felt that the amendments were necessary because of one example—Warcop military training estate in Cumbria, in the constituency of the right hon. Member for Penrith and The Border (David Maclean). I know Warcop common, which is an attractive, exciting piece of countryside, and he will know that the MOD manages it well, but there is potential conflict between the MOD’s purposes and the desires of walkers and ramblers in the north Pennines. I ask the Minister to put on record what he put in his letter—that if this discretionary power is used, there will be full consultation by MOD estates. The conflict of interest can be resolved and it is important to do that. Another conflict of interest is dealt with by my amendment No. 121. Members will be familiar with the issue, which has run throughout the course of the Bill. When the Bill was first published, 28 June 2005 was not mentioned—the date was inserted in the other place in Grand Committee. The purpose of this part of the Bill is to give people the right to argue that unlawful works should be removed. That is important in the context of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000, which has been mentioned today. One of the Government’s achievements has been the gift to working people of the right to roam freely over open country. All over the country, however, there is unlawful fencing. As I understand the present position, people can make an application for unlawful works and fencing erected after 28 June 2005 to be removed. I know from my direct experience, however, that there is fencing all over the country that precedes that date. For the life of me, although I know why the date of 28 June 2005 has been inserted, I do not understand the principle behind it. It is important that the Government are clear about their intent. It has taken landmark legislation to allow people to walk freely in the countryside. That access is being restricted by unlawful works. It cannot be right that people such as me can apply for those unlawful works, which prevent access to parts of the country, to come down if they were erected after 28 June 2005, but not if they were erected prior to that. The Bill has been improved, and its balance is generally right. On that aspect, however, the Government have got it wrong—badly wrong.