Government of Wales Bill

My Lords, the Minister said that a premature vote would be disastrous for the cause of devolution. He then went on to make clear that he certainly was not, in any circumstances, prepared to allow the Welsh Assembly to reach a judgment of when that moment should come. Surely, if anyone is in a position to make a judgment about the likely outcome, it should be the elected Members of the Welsh Assembly rather than the divided and self-interested forces of the Welsh Parliamentary Labour Party. Of course, as my noble friend Lord Roberts of Conwy said, that is the real reason why we are not being allowed to proceed to Part 4. That is also why it was quite clearly indicated in the election address of the Secretary of State for Wales to the electors of Blaenau Gwent today, about which comment has already been made, that he is only concerned with the immediate and that he has no intention of making any reference or progress towards Part 4. We now have the remarkable situation where the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrat Party, which say that they are in favour of the move to Part 4, are not prepared to see it at any time in the foreseeable future. As they are both against my amendment, there is no point in forcing it. However, I draw the attention of the people of Wales to the fact that the Conservative Party would give them Part 4, allow the Assembly to go forward to a referendum and back the judgment of the people of Wales. They can have Part 4 if that is what they want; it is the Government and the Liberal Democrat Party who are standing in their way.