Government of Wales Bill

moved Amendment No. 41:"Page 51, line 36, leave out paragraph (b)." The noble Lord said: My Lords, in moving Amendment No. 41 I shall speak also to Amendment No. 42. These amendments were probing amendments in Committee and have been tabled again in the light of a further letter I have received from the Minister. If I may say so, it is a model of clarity and perspicacity. I wish only to respond to the content in a wholly laudatory manner and add a further thought I have had in its slipstream. The subsections of Clause 94 to which I wish to refer deal with the circumstances in which Part 1 of Schedule 5 can be amended. It may be helpful if I draw the attention of your Lordships’ House to the relevant parts. Clause 94(1) states:"““Her Majesty may by Order in Council . . . ""(b) amend that Part to add a new field or to vary or remove any field””." Subsection (2) goes on to state:"““An Order in Council under this section does not have effect to amend Part 1 of Schedule 5 by adding a field if, at the time when the amendment comes into force, no functions in the field are exercisable by the Welsh Ministers, the First Minister or the Counsel General””." The situation appears to be that with the separation of the Executive from the legislature in Wales, Ministers who represent the Executive inherit all the functions that the Assembly performs. Part 1 of Schedule 5 reflects the legislative consequences of that. In other words, the fields and the matters under the fields in Part 1 reflect the precise nature of the functions as they now are. Clause 94(2) states, in the context of clause 94(1), that new fields and new matters can be added to Part 1 of Schedule 5 provided that they reflect new Executive functions and thus new ministerial functions. Those functions are devolved on Ministers earlier in the Bill under Clause 58. My interest in this matter has therefore shifted to Clause 58 itself. We have spent a great deal of time both in another place and in your Lordships’ House focusing on exactly what procedures we need to develop in both Houses to properly scrutinise the devolution of legislative power to the Welsh Assembly. It appears that if we are to add to the scope of devolution, we can do so only if additional powers and functions are granted to Welsh Ministers under Clause 58. So far we have paid no attention to the system of devolution in that clause. There, the decision to devolve is also controlled by an Order in Council procedure; but, so far as I am aware, no Government Minister, either in another place or in your Lordships’ House, has suggested for Clause 58 a pre-legislative procedure as has been suggested for Clause 94. I should be most grateful if the Minister would be kind enough to indicate whether he would be sympathetic to Parliament developing a pre-legislative procedure for Clause 58 similar to that suggested by Mr Ainger in another place for Clause 94. I beg to move.