Government of Wales Bill

My Lords, I recall an exchange at a Labour Party conference in the early 1970s. Michael Foot, with his good liberal, west country, home rule background, said that he was in favour of a measure of home rule. The response from Leo Abse was that you might as well talk about a measure of pregnancy, given the possible dynamics of what was happening. It is suggested that there be a referendum in respect of Part 3. I accept the argument about the Damascene conversion of the Conservative Party, made by the noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan, but there are practical considerations. If a referendum is to have any validity in its impact, there must be substantial participation. All of us, as politicians, are concerned about the lack of participation, even in Westminster elections. I mentioned earlier the problem we had in the 1997 referendum: in spite of all the major forces in Wales being in favour—with the exception of the Conservative Party—and the Welsh media building up as much of a head of steam as possible, we had 50 per cent participation. If the major step forward on primary legislation were to be taken, as in Scotland, there could be substantial participation, but even then it would probably be much lower than 50 per cent. How can one seriously expect a sufficient proportion of the Welsh electorate to participate with the relatively minor, step-by-step elements which would result from Part 3? Participation would be derisory and there would be no substantial lesson to draw from it. I have fears, too, about Part 4, but my fears about Part 3 are much greater.