Health Bill

I, too, thank the Minister for his reply and the noble Baroness, Lady Masham, for her point. She made something click for me. I always wondered why James Robertson Justice in the Carry On films wore a bow tie—now I know. However, she makes a good and serious point. Our debates would not be complete without the presence of the noble Baroness, Lady Masham, and I am very pleased that she is here. Although I thank the Minister for his reply, I remain at a loss to know how it is possible to work out in any meaningful sense not only what trends there are in infection rates but how to gauge what strategies are effective if basic data are not gathered. The Minister talked about lower-risk items, but what does he mean? I am not in favour of setting up a lot of costly and bureaucratic burdens for the NHS but, at the same time, overall standards of cleanliness appear to have gone down. I am sure that there are incidents throughout the NHS where different types of infection have a disproportionate effect in some places where the overall level of hygiene is lower than elsewhere. The Minister talked about bedlinen and laundry, which I would like to know about. However, we also know that another factor in infection control is bed occupancy. The noble Baroness, Lady Masham, and I will pray in aid: we have talked before many times in your Lordships’ House about the amount of time that staff on the ward have to thoroughly decontaminate a bed. One can begin to put together the fuller picture by systematic and detailed gathering of data about not just cause but the interrelationship between practice and incidence. Severe doubts remain about the basis on which this whole legal edifice will be built. If the Minister is unable to answer me today—and I realise that that may be the case—I will withdraw the amendment, but we may return to it.