Health Bill

I appreciate what the Minister has said and obviously I will study his words when they become available to us. I should like to follow up on two issues, one of which is a comment. However, the first is really quite important. Members of the Committee will recall that we expounded at some length the problems of those who smoke the shisha pipe. I believe that the Government said that they had consulted with people from the relevant communities and had decided that shisha pipe smoking was distinctly harmful. I do not have the resources of the Department of Health; mine are very limited so I can draw on just one source. Contact has been made with the Ershad Centre in the Edgware Road, which is probably one of the largest shisha smoking community centres in the United Kingdom. A letter has been sent to me by Ibrahim El-Nour—I hope that he will excuse me if I have not pronounced his name correctly—the director of the centre. He points out in his letter that shisha pipe smoking is a long-held tradition within the Middle Eastern and Asian communities and that it is attractive to a number of people in the British community. He points out that"““The environment where Shisha Pipes are smoked is a safe environment where there is no presence of alcohol or any other harmful drugs. The Pipes are smoked by different age groups from young to very old and create an environment of happy social gathering that is unaffected by any forms of violence or anti-social behaviour””." He goes on to make it clear that community objections to the banning of shisha pipes can be summarised in just three points, the first of which is consultation:"““The users of Shisha Pipes, the businesses and other members of the community who use it as their main recreational activity have not been consulted by the Government on the inclusion of the Shisha smoke in the smoking ban. Members of the community only became aware of the Legislation after it was reported in the foreign press following the last debate in Parliament””." I am not sure whether he is referring to our deliberations at Second Reading."““Members of the community feel that they have been excluded from a debate that goes to the heart of their culture despite the Government promise of inclusion””." It may be that the Minister is able to tell us that proper consultations have taken place with the community. If that is the case, I shall have to point that out to Mr El-Nour. His second point concerns medical research, and I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Walton, will listen attentively to this:"““To our knowledge, there is no medical research carried out to establish the harm from smoking the Shisha Pipes. Due to the nature of the Shisha Pipe’s construction where water acts as filter and to the small amount of tobacco present in the mix, members of the community believe that there is no harm to health from smoking Shisha. Or at least not as harmful as cigarette smoking and therefore it should not be included in the same category””." Obviously that is the view of the community, members of whom obviously will be doctors, but perhaps it is not correct. The last point covers the very important aspect of community impact, which comes back to the central thrust of why I personally am taking this stance on the Bill:"““The Government did not assess the impact on the community of the Shisha ban and the effects on community cohesion. Many members of the Muslim community””—" the vast majority of them, so far as I know—"““do not drink and do not like their children to frequent bars and night-clubs. The Shisha cafes provide a safe environment for community interaction and activities. The fear in the minds of many is that once these places are shut””—" they will have to be shut if shisha pipes are banned—"““their children will be introduced to places where alcohol is consumed as well as drugs. The legislation is causing great anguish and confusion amongst members of our community””." In summary, the question I put to the Minister is one that he should be able to answer because by now his officials should have had a chance to ferret through their papers. Were representatives of these communities consulted and is there an answer to the problems raised here? Before the Minister replies, perhaps I could mention one other point so as to help speed up our progress. I have checked on whether there is any insurance loading for passive smoking. If passive smoking is making an impact on people’s lives on the number of years for which they will survive, you would expect the insurance companies to impose a loading. But I have checked with underwriters who bear the key responsibility for assessing risks in the weighting of policies. Although those with existing health problems or dangerous jobs and those who are smokers face policy loadings to reflect their personal risk, no such policy loading occurs for passive smokers. The insurance industry is not a charity. In assessing risk it knows well, as do we all from our experience when paying for our car insurance, that if there is the slightest risk, it will bang on a loading. We checked with two organisations. Scottish Widows, which is part of the Lloyds TSB Group, stated that it requires to know if a person has directly smoked or taken nicotine products within the last year. Passive smoking is simply not an issue. Standard Life confirmed this and said that its underwriters, charged with the high responsibility of risk assessment, find no reason to treat passive smoking as an issue. When the Minister comes back to this at the next stage with the amendment he talked about earlier, I hope he will recognise that we shall return to the fact that a third of the nation smokes and that the issue of passive smoking is a long, long way from ever being proven—we do not want to go over the arguments again today, but nevertheless the proof is not there. When the Minister’s amendment is brought forward, I hope that it will make the kind of sensible provision that Members of the Committee and, not least, the percentage of the nation which smokes, can accept.