Health Bill

It is a long time since I was the pupil of the noble Lord, Lord Skidelsky, at university. Happily I was not a student of statistics on that occasion, but I learnt a great deal from him in other areas. Perhaps we could deal with the question that he raised in an earlier intervention on the figures given by the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, relating to the number of people exposed to smoking at work. The figures published in the ONS omnibus survey do not say that 10.4 million people are exposed in all parts of the place where they work; it says that 10.4 million people work in places where there are designated smoking areas. There are 2.3 million people who work in places where there are no controls at all on smoking, and they are the ones most at risk. Where I suspect the Committee will find itself divided on a number of occasions as we go through our deliberations is on the medical effect of second-hand smoke. I happen to take a view that concurs with that of the noble Baronesses, Lady Howarth and Lady Finlay, the noble Lord, Lord Walton, and the Members who come to this Committee from a medical background. I have also read very carefully the findings of the Government’s own Chief Medical Officer on the subject. If you do not take the view that second-hand smoke is dangerous, I can understand your opposition to this Bill. If, on the other hand, you think that it is dangerous, that there is no way you can protect people from the effects of second-hand smoke, whether by designated smoking areas or by ventilation, and that the only way you can protect them is by requiring people to smoke out of doors, then we have a divide. I come down on one side and the House of Commons, by a large majority, came down on the same side, as have the Secretary of State and the Government. I am with them on this. Referring to the intervention by my noble friend Lord Pendry, I believe that this question about the manifesto is a very dead and red herring, not least because the decision in the House of Commons was taken on a free vote. If the House of Commons is given the opportunity to have a free vote, manifesto commitments do not apply to any Member who takes part in the vote—and I have had confirmation this afternoon from my noble friend from the Government Whips’ Office that all our votes on this Bill in this House will also be free votes. So I certainly feel that I shall be able to follow my conscience and not be required to follow a Whip when casting votes in later stages of the debate. The only other issue that I would like to raise is the commencement date and the effect on the licensed trade, to which the noble Earl, Lord Howe, referred in his speech—now quite a long time ago. I think that he should look at the experience in Scotland, where the Campaign for Real Ale and others have already reported an upturn in the numbers of people going to pubs since the introduction of the smoking ban. The same experience has been encountered in Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Italy and Spain—all countries which have gone down the same sort of route as we are proposing to go down today. That is the answer to the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart. It is not as though we are pioneering legislation here; we are following the best practice that other countries have already introduced and are finding works incredibly effectively. This cannot come too soon for me, and I would go along with the earlier date proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, if possible.