Government of Wales Bill

My Lords, I was involved for many years in developing the Labour Party’s policy on devolution as general secretary of the Wales Labour Party. I worked with my noble friend Lord Jones in his then role as shadow Secretary of State for Wales. We spent many hours, months and years developing the policy. That is why I am very pleased to be able to take part in this debate. This Bill is a further development in the devolution process. It updates, perhaps improves, the structure of devolution after seven years. It shows what has worked and what needs to be improved. During the seven years of devolution, some excellent Wales- only legislation has been enacted at Westminster at the request of the Welsh Assembly, such as the legislation that created the Children’s Commissioner, the first of its kind in the United Kingdom. Today, there are Children’s Commissioners in England, Scotland and Northern Ireland. There will soon be a Commissioner for Older People in Wales—the first such commissioner, it is believed, in the world. Free bus passes for everyone over 60 in Wales have provided new opportunities for older people to travel around the country. I was reading in the Western Mail this week that many older people from the valleys are taking day trips to Porthcawl—even in this weather—and bringing additional custom to the shops and restaurants. One pensioner takes a trip to mid-Wales every week, just for the pleasure of the ride. The free bus passes have changed the lives of many older people, who, instead of staying at home on their own, can once again enjoy the simple pleasures of a day at the seaside or in the country, or even a trip to Cardiff. Many additional benefits which were probably not anticipated when the free bus passes were first issued have accrued. I could give many other examples of how differently and successfully we are doing things in Wales because of devolution. One look at the elected Members in the Assembly shows how different things are. We have an Assembly of 60 Members, of whom 30 are women. It is the only legislature in the world to have 50 per cent of its membership made up of women. It is also the only legislature in the world in which the majority of Cabinet members are women. I feel the same sense of pride as I felt the first day that the Assembly sat in May 1999 after so many women had been elected. That showed the new, young, different face of the new Wales. The contrast between the House of Commons and the Welsh Assembly is for all to see. Many women politicians serve as role models to women in Wales. I felt that same sense of pride on 1 March, when I attended the opening of our wonderful new Assembly building. I know that other noble Lords who were there on that day felt the same. I feel proud also of my own party, which worked for so many years in the 1980s and 1990s to ensure that we had a good and workable policy on devolution. Without that commitment from the Labour Party, we would not have had devolution and we would not be debating today how we can improve the structures that are now in place. I agree with the ban on candidates standing in both the constituency section and the list. If a candidate is rejected by the constituency and can still be a Member of the Assembly, that brings about a certain amount of confusion among the electorate. In a democracy, the electoral system must be robust and it must reflect the wishes of the electorate. Much has been said about the list Members encroaching on the work of the constituency Members. Several noble Lords have said today that it seems that the Labour Party is opposed to list Members opening constituency offices. Of course, those Members need to open offices. As noble Lords have asked, how could the Labour Party be against elected Members, even list Members, having an office or running a campaign? The problem has arisen because many list Members have opened an office in a constituency which they hope to fight in the next round of elections. They have targeted a constituency and perhaps not worked as hard in the rest of the region. That is the problem; it is not that they open offices. In the run-up to the elections in 1999, no party spelt out the role of the list Member. It was new to us all. It was only when the election campaign started that I began to wonder what we would do with the list Members. I think that that was the first time many of us asked what a list Member would do. I know that, as far as the Labour Party and other parties were concerned, the list Members were the same as constituency Members, because there was no particular role for them. I know that the Bill does not address this matter. Perhaps all parties should think about it. Perhaps we should have thought about the exact role of the regional list Members in the past, but none of us did. Much has been said about not allowing candidates to stand both in a constituency and on the list. The approach that is being taken is not a precedent. The Electoral Administration Bill, which is in Committee in this House, will ban candidates from standing in more than one constituency. This will end the practice of independent candidates standing in more than one constituency, an example of which—the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Llandudno, mentioned her—was the candidate who stood in the four Cardiff constituencies in the 2005 general election. Catherine Taylor-Dawson stood on the Vote for Yourself Rainbow Dream Ticket. Her total vote in the four constituencies was 204. She received just one vote in Cardiff North. Another candidate, Rainbow George, stood in 13 constituencies in England. That is an abuse of democracy which will end with the passing of the Electoral Administration Bill. How are the proposals for Wales so different from those in the Electoral Administration Bill? The proposal to ban candidates standing in more than one seat in the same election is no different from the proposal in the Electoral Administration Bill. I spoke earlier of the innovative measures that the Welsh Assembly has introduced, such as for a Children’s Commissioner and a Commissioner for Older People, as well the Assembly’s 50 per cent female membership. There are other such innovations. The Welsh Assembly can be justly proud of being the first legislature in the United Kingdom, or in the world, to take innovative measures on specific matters which have proved to be so successful. Even if we are the first to rule that a candidate cannot stand in the constituency section and the list at the same time, our past record when we have been the first to do something suggests that this, too, will be a successful measure. The proposals to allow the Welsh Assembly to pass legislation on devolved matters through Orders in Council are to be welcomed. I am glad that my only concern has been mentioned by several noble Lords tonight, because they have far more parliamentary experience than I do; when I looked at it, I thought that perhaps my lack of parliamentary experience meant that I did not understand the process. I am grateful to the Minister for explaining in his opening remarks the role of your Lordships’ House in pre-legislative scrutiny; he said that it is for this House to consider how best to conduct it. However, at what stage will your Lordships’ House decide on pre-legislative scrutiny? Will it be when the draft order arrives in Parliament? Who will make the decision on how to proceed? Will these matters be decided during consideration of the Bill—I do not think so—or will the decision be more informal? If we do not have clear guidance in advance, the opportunity for this House to carry out pre-legislative scrutiny could be denied to us, leaving the only opportunity for debate or discussion at the Order in Council stage. I understand that there will not be an opportunity for amendments; there will be an opportunity only to express views. I am not clear at all on this. I hope that the Minister can assure me on the points that I and many other noble Lords have made. My only concern is for your Lordships’ House to have the opportunity to scrutinise, as I fully support the measure to allow the Assembly to legislate in the manner that it believes best for Wales. I am glad to see a provision for a referendum to be held if it is proposed that further legislative powers should be given to Wales. It makes sense to have that written into the Bill at this stage. When further devolution is needed must be a matter for the people of Wales to decide. There are many aspects of this Bill that I welcome. It will give the Welsh Assembly the confidence and ability to deliver the required legislation for the people of Wales without having to wait its turn in the parliamentary queue. I believe—and many have expressed this view tonight—that devolution is working for the people of Wales. As this new institution grows, it is now appropriate to allow it to develop further along the legislative path.