Terrorism Bill

My Lords, we have had a debate that, although somewhat shorter than on previous occasions, was still undoubtedly full. I took the opposite view from the noble Baroness’s in that I welcomed everything in the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, except the final sentence. Let me make it clear at the start that we are not trying to kick this Bill into touch and force the Government to rely on the Parliament Act. All we are doing today is asking the House of Commons to consider the new amendments tabled in my name. I have to say that I remain concerned about the inclusion of the word ““glorification”” in the Bill, and the noble Baroness has not done anything to reduce my fears on the matter. She said that the references to glorification were merely an illustration, but went on to say that they were needed as guidance—no doubt, guidance to the courts. That carries the inference that the addition of the word ““glorification”” will mean that people who would not have been convicted merely on the basis of indirect encouragement of terrorism will be convicted under this Bill. That leaves me at least as worried as I was in the beginning. The concern is not to any great extent that people who should not be convicted will be convicted. My concern is that there will be an inhibition of legitimate expression and debate. That concerns us very seriously. In view of what the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, said, and the expressions from the noble Lord, Lord Tebbit, and the right reverend Prelate, I cannot say that we are expecting to win a vote this time. Indeed, I did not expect to win a vote on the previous occasion. I am even less confident this time. Nevertheless, I believe that we need to put on record our opposition to the inclusion of the word ““glorification””, which we believe will cause significant trouble over the next few years. I therefore wish to test the opinion of the House on this matter. On Question, Whether the said Motion (No. A1) shall be agreed to? Their Lordships divided: Contents, 60; Not-Contents, 172. On Question, Motion A agreed to.