Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Bill

My Lords, first, I want to deal with the issue of apologies. I shall say this only once to the noble Earl: he really, really, really should not apologise for bringing up these issues. I think that I speak for everyone in your Lordships’ House when I say that we have nothing but admiration for how he constantly reminds us of our responsibilities for children. So please do not apologise any more. There is absolutely no need to do so. I apologise to the noble Earl for having left my place to go to the Box, but I am about to go off-message from my notes and it is always wise to warn my officials that that I am about to do so. I agreed with the noble Earl that I would say something about monitors. As I was dealing with the earlier amendment, I was wracking my brains to remember the one thing that I had forgotten. We were talking about the children’s champion and I said that I would ask the children’s champion within IND to consider the monitoring arrangements. I hope that that will address that point. Of course, the noble Earl can come back to me if that is not right. Perhaps I may also say how much we welcomed the children’s commission report on Yarl’s Wood and readily agreed that it should return to see the changes and initiatives that have been prompted by it. I know that noble Lords will want to keep in touch with it. As I said, I will go off-message on to my own notes. I have indicated at previous stages why I cannot accept the amendment. The noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, and I are in the same place on the issue: there are tensions in the system raised by the amendment. We could not accept an amendment under the legal opinion that I have—I will return to the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Avebury—because we believe that it could create circumstances where it could be used as a means of delaying or preventing people from being returned home, which we could not do. I turn to the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Avebury. I saw the legal opinion for the first time this morning. It was received late last night but I was doing other work and I did not get to see it until this morning, so I have not had time to study it as the noble Lord requested. However, it has influenced me to the extent that I recognise that those involved in the Home Office need to study it because, as the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, said, it is an important legal opinion and we will deal with it appropriately. I agree with what the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, was saying about the potential to think about the issues in a broader way. I and my noble friend Lady Scotland of Asthal sit on a committee that meets under the auspices of the Minister for Children, whom I cannot say has considered the issue in detail, but it might be an appropriate forum. I will steal that suggestion with grateful thanks and see if there is a way in which we might be able to take it further forward rather than setting up something separate to do so. I want to commit us to take the issue further forward because I cannot accept the amendment, and if the legal opinion stands I will not accept it; I make no commitment to it, but we are back to the underlying issues within the amendments of trying to make sure that children are properly looked after and catered for—if I may describe it like that. I want to commit to take the issue back to IND and ask it to carry out the kind of review that noble Lords are looking for across all the children’s issues, part of which I committed to on earlier amendments, with a view to coming back to address the issues properly. The children’s champion is in place—I do not know him but I know that the noble Earl was pleased to see that he is in that position. The noble Earl and I discussed earlier what process I need to follow. I want to add my personal commitment, because I have taken the Bill through, but I am committing everyone else too. I do not quite have an answer and perhaps the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, can help me afterwards because we need a mechanism for the issue to come back. It may be through the traditional mechanisms of an Unstarred Question, a Starred Question or a Written Question, but I will commit that we will find a way of doing it: we will seek to continue the debate and to address the issues properly. On that basis alone I commit to take forward the issue, to review the legal opinion, to make sure that we are right to reject it for the grounds I have given but to seek to deal with the underlying issue, which the noble Earl and other noble Lords feel strongly needs to be dealt with. I hope that on that basis he will be able to withdraw his amendment.