Compensation Bill [HL]

My Lords, I am extremely grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, because I know that he has spent a great deal of time thinking about Clause 1 and has worked closely with me, not least in Grand Committee, as he said, discussing statutory duty, which I dealt with under the previous amendment. I hope that noble Lords who have not been party to our debate will have got a flavour of where the issue stems from. I will declare my interest as an ambassador for the Hertfordshire Guides, of which my daughter is a member. I do little for them, as they will probably tell noble Lords. It is a privilege, however, to be part of that great organisation, albeit in a small way. I described the Government’s approach to Clause 1 to the Select Committee, which I am sorry I was not able to convince. It is an eminent committee, with an extremely good chairman, Mr Alan Beith, to whom I pay due regard. I described the issue as a bit of a see-saw for the Government. On the one hand, as the noble and learned Lord, Lord Ackner, and other noble Lords have indicated, it is not the Government’s intention to change the law—it is our intention to change behaviour. On the other hand, organisations feel with great passion, as exemplified by the noble Earl, Lord Erroll, and the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, in particular, that the perception of how the courts are behaving has affected the participation of children and young people in particular in activities. The one thing that I cannot prove is what visits and activities never took place as a consequence of people’s fear that there could be a compensation culture. That is impossible to prove. I can tell noble Lords that no school trips, to our knowledge, have been cancelled, and that lots of activities take place. As the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Wirral, mentioned, the evidence of the Scouts is that this issue is crucial to their ability to recruit and retain those people whom they need as volunteers. It is a perception; it is a problem. When we approached it we decided that it was appropriate in law to make a declarative statement—not to change the law but to make clear what the law is. We must do that in a way that continues to allow the courts to interpret the common law and for the common law to develop as it should. I have taken the best advice I can and I am certain that this is what it will do. Indeed, when I come to respond to the Constitutional Affairs Select Committee I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, will see that there are some misunderstandings in the report that we can deal with and will deal with formally in our reply. The provision seeks to recognise the position that has been put to us and to deal with it in the best possible way without changing the law in any detrimental way. I think that the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, will accept that I would do nothing in legislation that meant that any child was less safe on any trip that might take place; nor does this provision do that. Equally, I would not wish to see children, young people or adults of any kind denied the opportunities—although I am not sure that I want to go rock climbing with the noble Earl after what he said—that the noble Earl spoke about with passion and that are so good for them. This provision does nothing other than send a message. As I indicated in Grand Committee, this is only a tiny part of the work that my 10 colleagues on the ministerial steering group—from nine government departments—are doing on these particular issues. The provision is simply an attempt to send a message as clearly as possible in the way that we believe is appropriate. Recognising what we have sought to achieve, I hope that noble Lords will agree that the other place should at least have the opportunity to debate and discuss this. There is a huge amount of interest, not least from the all-party group, to which I pay enormous tribute for the amount of time and energy given to me. I know that the group feels passionately that there are real concerns in the volunteer community that must be debated and addressed. For that reason, if for no other, I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, will recognise that we have an obligation to allow the other place to do that. Most importantly, noble Lords must recognise that we are seeking, not to change the law, but to declare something that is important in our common law and to take forward opportunities, especially for young people. The clause should stand part of this Bill.