Rail Vehicle Accessibility (Gatwick Express Class 458 Vehicles) Exemption Order 2006

My Lords, the House will not expect me to take quite the pessimistic view that the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, takes on the issue. I want to reassure him that we are concerned to introduce a framework for the orders, after consultation, in which we can minimise the amount of valuable time in which the House needs to be occupied by the orders and the demands of their necessary documentation. I give him reassurance that we are addressing that issue. The noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, asked me the major question in his characteristic way in terms that I was readily able to comprehend and answer. I am not so confident that I am able to follow my noble friend Lord Snape down the intricacies of his contribution. The noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, will know that we take some pride in having 4,400 vehicles compliant with the Act. We see that in the construction of all new vehicles that they are inevitably obliged to comply with the Act, while as other vehicles come in for refurbishment they too are obliged to become compliant with it. So we expect the number of vehicles becoming compliant to double over the next 10 years. The noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, will know that on the deadline that the noble Lord, Lord Addington, and I debated at considerable length during passage of the Bill—when, I must add, the Conservative Front Bench also played its part—we undertook that all railway vehicles would be compliant by 1 January 2020. I recall the Liberal Democrat spokesman being particularly keen for it to be done four years early—but then they are conspicuous spenders of both public and private resources on these matters. Whether the Conservative Front Bench was equally profligate on that occasion I cannot now recall, so I shall not accuse the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, of that. Certainly he was not at that time in his place with regard to the legislation. So 1 January 2020 is our end date for full compliance. Therefore, I must address what is really a debate between the noble Lord, Lord Addington, with his keen and proper advocacy of the needs of the disabled and for as many vehicles as possible to be compliant, and my noble friend Lord Snape, who indicated the difficulties for the industry—with which I have some sympathy. The noble Lord, Lord Addington, is right in that any departure from the requirements of the Act and the regulations marginally—perhaps only marginally—disadvantage the disabled. I reassure the noble Lord that what the noble Lord, Lord Snape, said was right; the kind of deficiencies on the two trains that would be deployed on the Gatwick Express are marginal. My noble friend Lord Snape indicated that one of the weaknesses is that the internal visual announcements are smaller than required—we specify not less than 35 millimetres high and they are only 32 millimetres high. The internal door controls are not illuminated; there is no illumination of steps; the handrails of external doors are not positioned as required; and some of the door controls are not positioned at the regulated height. All of those are factors that disabled people may well struggle with and we want disabled people to be able to use these trains like any other passenger. So there is an element of providing dispensation, but I emphasise to the noble Lord, Lord Addington, that my noble friend Lord Snape is right—that this is on the margin of inconvenience and that these are substitute trains. They come into play only when the Gatwick Express is not able fully to meet demand due to difficulties with its other trains. My noble friend Lord Snape asked me about some larger issues. First, he berated me for the time it has taken to produce the order. I seem to recall that in a previous life he had some responsibility for the organisation of parliamentary business in the other place. Whether he used to originate that business or merely process it, I cannot recall, but as a Whip he would have taken a keen interest in how we organised parliamentary business. He knows that it is not easy to find time for regulations. We have to work within the framework of the limited time that we have available and I can tell the noble Lord that we would have liked to have dealt with the order earlier, but we have to join our place in the queue. He will also recognise that we had to undertake significant consultation. As I told the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, we want to establish a framework which will not mean a huge amount of work either for those seeking to comply with the regulations or for ourselves in seeking to enforce them and in processing them through this House and another place. We want to obtain regularity on this issue so that it does not become an excessive burden on all concerned. But my noble friend will recognise that we have a fair bit of work to do on this. The easier part is applying the regulations to new build. That is obvious enough, although, as my noble friend will be aware, that is not always the easiest exercise and consumes an enormous amount of experts’ time. If we are to tackle these issues effectively, we need time to get the orders right. I accept my noble friend’s main thrust—that this order has been some time coming. It is therefore inconvenient to the operators. We need a structure to deal with this issue in future, because there will be other necessary exemptions. The noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, is also right: there will be movement of trains. It is bound to decrease over time because all new build is compliant and operators are not neglectful of the Act and the requirements. Where they can, they will effect the necessary changes as time goes on. We will therefore have a steady rate of progress. But I accept the comments of my noble friend Lord Snape that these things need to be addressed in a forthright manner and we need to make as rapid progress as we can. I am aware of the points that he makes—that train operators want to be compliant with the Act and will do their best and that all new build will be certain to meet these requirements. In seeking to do that train operators have a challenging time ahead. With certain trains there is quite a lot of work to be done and, as the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, indicated, it raises the issue of exemptions when trains are moved round the country. I would like to convey to the noble Lords, Lord Bradshaw and Lord Snape, that we are fully cognisant of that issue. Both are well versed in the issues of the rail industry and they will know that it is not in the Government’s interests to put undue burdens on train operators. But, equally clearly—and I would like to reassure the noble Lord, Lord Addington, on this front—there is no way in which this Government would in any way, shape or form resile from the obligations under the Disability Discrimination Act 2005 which we are proud to have passed. We recognise the achievements of the original Act under the previous administration in 1995. We want as many rail vehicles to be fully compliant as soon as possible. I beg to move. On Question, Motion agreed to.