Terrorism Bill

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Hurd, has spoken some extremely wise words both on the nature of manifestos and on the absolute necessity for certainty in the law, and as I understand from what was said by the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, and my noble friend Lord Goodhart, the crucial aim here is to make sure that the law is unambiguous and clear. ““Glorification”” is a slippery word, as indicated in the letter from the United Nations Commissioner on Human Rights, Louise Arbor. It does not have a clear meaning and therefore, paradoxically, in addressing us the Minister made it plain that one of the things which would limit the number of prosecutions that might be brought under glorification was intent. That was put into the Bill after a very long argument in this House which, of course, came after the use of glorification, which in turn preceded the introduction of intent into the law. If intent is one of the things that narrow the area in which cases alleging glorification can be brought, it is rather strange that it should now be adduced as an argument for keeping the term ““glorification””. There is another factor which links what was said by the noble Lord, Lord Hurd, with the moving words of the noble Lord, Lord Tebbit. Quite simply, the glorification of what might be called terrorism lies deep in many cultural traditions, not only in the tradition of Islam. On Sundays I go to a church called the Church of St Joseph’s and the English Martyrs. It glorifies terrorism. Those martyrs died under the reigns of Henry VIII and Queen Elizabeth I and therefore they are being glorified for what they did in defiance of the state at the time. As has been pointed out by my noble friend Lord Thomas, there is no limitation on how far back in time glorification may go. If I travel to Oxford I will see a monument which glorifies Archbishop Cranmer, who equally offended the Roman Catholic regime at the time. The problem here is that at some point most cultures glorify terrorism, and the noble Lord, Lord Tebbit, was absolutely right to remind us of very recent examples. Terrorism has been glorified in Northern Ireland and, in effect, is still being glorified on placards and posters. As the noble Lord, Lord Judd, rightly said, consider for a moment the impact on the Islamic community when it is picked out for a series of cases about glorification when it is perfectly clear that not many miles away similar acts of glorification leading, as the noble Lord, Lord Tebbit, reminded us, directly to deaths at violent hands have not been prosecuted. There has not been even an incentive or an instigation of prosecution in those cases. I for one have found it extraordinary that in the long period when the IRA refused to decommission its weapons no attempt was made to bring its members to justice on the grounds of their being involved in terrorism. We are walking on deeply ambiguous territory. It would be most dangerous, if we seriously believe that we have to curb terrorist actions—I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Ramsay, that we need to do so—as a result of the cases brought for us to be seen to be very aware of terrorism in one quarter and completely unaware and not even wishing to be aware of terrorism in another. In the history of our relations with Northern Ireland we have a different attempt to deal with terrorism by compromise. With that history behind us, and indeed with us, we are almost the last country on earth that can now declare clearly that terrorism is a distinctly Muslim characteristic. Yet that is what is being read all too much into our debates and deliberations. Therefore I plead with the House, if it is serious about bringing cases that will be upheld on the basis of absolutely clear law, that the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, is right: far more effective to have that law clear and unambiguous, even if fewer cases are brought to fail, than to play the game of appearing to pick out one culture of glorification over another leaving us with the general impression of a deeply built-in prejudice against the Islamic community.