Terrorism Bill

My Lords, I speak as one whose vote on this matter is still essentially up for grabs. That may not be the case for everyone in the House. I listened extremely carefully to what the noble Baroness said and was sorry that, by her remarks about terrorists going to paradise, she seemed to imply that the legislation was solely about Islamic terrorism. I accept that that was not her intention, yet it could have been heard in that way. We cannot know what outrages there may be in future, but at present the victims of Islamic terrorism here in this country are mercifully few against those of our own home-grown northern Irish terrorism. I have   long been concerned that it has seemed impossible to take proceedings against Mr Adams and Mr McGuinness, who have glorified terrorism and still do that. It is no good the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, sniffing when we have all seen those two gentlemen standing at military-style funerals with hooded gunmen firing in celebration of the terrorist. If that is not glorification of terrorism, it would be rather difficult to define what is. If those gentlemen continue to glorify terrorism and terrorists, does the noble Baroness feel that they would be caught by the provision of her legislation? Furthermore, the Minister spoke of the problems of references in the amendments which were passed by this House to ““the listener””; she also mentioned placards. I presume that she was trying there to bring to our minds the recent Islamic march in London and   the grossly offensive placards seen there. Yet I understand that it would have been possible, under existing law, to bring prosecutions against those carrying the placards. Is my understanding right? Would it have been possible to bring prosecutions and if so, why was it decided not to bring them? If we are to give powers to proceed against the offence of glorification of terrorism, we would want to know whether the Government were going to use them or have them only as an eye-catching initiative. If placards are to be brought into the legislation, what about the murals on the walls of Belfast and Londonderry which glorify both republican and loyalist terrorism? Would the creators of those murals be likely to be found guilty of glorifying terrorism? Would it make any difference to the likelihood of their prosecution and conviction whether we accepted the Minister’s proposals or those of my noble friend and the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart? Before I finally decide into which Lobby I should go, I would be interested to hear the noble Baroness’s reply.