Terrorism Bill

My Lords, most importantly, we do not look at the issue of glorification in isolation; we have to consider it within Clause 1. It is important that we remind ourselves of the hurdles that we have now put into the Bill which will have to be satisfied by the prosecution if this offence is to be made out. In Clause 1 we have agreed that the offence should be committed only if the requisite mental tests of intent and subjective recklessness are satisfied. The offence will be committed only if someone encourages terrorism, whether directly or indirectly—including through the glorification of terrorism, because it is a species of the way in which one can commit this act—intending to encourage it, or knowingly taking an unreasonable risk that he will encourage it. In that context, we cannot see why anyone should object to the inclusion of a provision relating to glorification of terrorism. Nor can we see any merit in the halfway house contained in the amendment of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Lloyd of Berwick. We believe, just as with many other words, that the court will be able, in given cases, to explain this issue with a degree of clarity which will enable juries to come to a decision. It will not stand alone; it will sit within that context. It is very important to remind ourselves of that reality. My right honourable friend the Home Secretary made a commitment in the oral Statement he made in another place on 2 February to publish a draft terrorism Bill for prelegislative scrutiny in the first half of next year. That is what we have just been talking about. We will have not just the Bill in due course; we will also have that opportunity for prelegislative scrutiny. The Bill will cover matters that go far wider than the three issues we have discussed and there will an opportunity for us to consider them in greater detail. On the basis of the presence of glorification in the manifesto, the presence in the UN resolution and the way in which the other place has now on three occasions said very clearly that it is not minded to agree with your Lordships’ House, I believe this is the moment where we bow to the other place, confident, as we are, that we will have an opportunity to return to this in the way that the right reverend Prelate indicated when we will have the benefit of the advice on definition. We will look again to see whether that definition changes. If it changes—I make it clear that we do not know whether it will and we have talked about the difficulties inherent in that—it may well have an impact on the other provisions, and we would have to look again at them. I beg to move. Moved, That this House do not insist on its Amendments Nos. 5, 11, 15, 28, 31, 32 and 34; and do agree to Amendments Nos. 34A and 34B proposed by the Commons in lieu.—(Baroness Scotland of Asthal.)