Government of Wales Bill

It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T.C. Davies), who leads so graciously with his chin on so many issues. He talks about a referendum, but we know that he would vote against it. He has said tonight that he is pro-devolution, yet he is going to vote against that, too. I happen to agree with a lot of what the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Lembit Öpik) said, but we think that things should move at a different pace. That is the difference between us. In 1997, I was happy to work with many pro-devolution parties to get the Assembly up and running, and it was a great tribute to the cross-party coalition that that happened. The referendum result in my constituency reflected the national picture—51 per cent. were in favour and 49 per cent. against, which is why we have to be a little cautious about the pace at which we move forward. I engage a great deal with my constituents and I do not think that they have the appetite for the great change that the Liberal Democrats and, certainly, Plaid Cymru want—namely, total independence. Plaid Cymru wants to use the Assembly to move towards full independent status. I want the Welsh Assembly to work for the people of Ynys Môn, and I believe that the Bill is pitched just about right in that regard. I am proud to follow a strong tradition, along with my hon. Friend the Member for Llanelli (Nia Griffith). Our predecessors, Jim Griffiths and Cledwyn Hughes, were the real architects of devolution, and they knew what was acceptable to the people of Wales at the time. They set up the Welsh Office and introduced the biggest pieces of legislation of the time to help the Welsh language. I remember talking to Cledwyn Hughes after the 1997 referendum debate. I thought that he would be very disappointed at what was on offer, but he said no, it was about right. It was enough, given the shock when we lost the referendum in 1979, and he felt that we had to move at an appropriate pace. The Bill has three main parts. There is consensus on the part that separates the Executive from the corporate body of the Assembly. We all agree with that. My difficulty with the Conservatives’ argument is that although, in Committee and on Report they said time and again that we should not amend an arrangement that was only a few years old, they agree with us on that aspect. Even the hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs. Gillan) said tonight that we could have had a Bill dealing only with the separation of powers. The Conservatives really are confused about the Bill as a whole. Then there is the banning of the dual mandate. That is confusing. Like the hon. Member for Monmouth, I do not get exercised about it, but I recall that when I was first elected a Member of Parliament, the Assembly Member who is now the leader of the Opposition in the Assembly did get exercised when a Conservative list Member used to claim to be the based Assembly Member in that constituency. That has changed a little. It does not really bother me, but it is confusing when losers under the first-past-the-post system become winners. I think it right to adjust the position. The Opposition’s arguments about gerrymandering and rigging were unfounded—they had no evidence to support their claim that the measure would benefit the Labour party. I do not think that it will be of benefit, but I think that it will clarify the situation. The other main measure involves Orders in Council. On the eve of St David’s day, I hope that one of the first Orders in Council from the Welsh Assembly will be for a public holiday in Wales. It would be very symbolic. I believe in enabling powers, and in working in partnership with the National Assembly. It is important for that young institution to produce positive measures that we can discuss and on which we can make progress. I want devolution to move faster because I am a pro-devolutionist. I always have been, following a proud tradition in my constituency. However, I do not think that we should move too far ahead of the people in Wales. I think that the Bill has the balance about right. That is why, as a pro-devolutionist, I am proud to support pro-devolution measures—unlike the Conservatives, who claim to be pro-devolution but are prepared to vote against any pro-devolution measure at any stage in the House.