Government of Wales Bill

I thought that the hon. Gentleman said that I was rambling. My lip-reading skills are obviously not as good as they used to be. I am rambling slightly, because I am perplexed by this clause. I call clause 60(d) the sleaze subsection, because it says that any Welsh Minister may do anything that they consider appropriate to further the aims in clause 60(1) by providing"““staff, goods, services or accommodation to any person.””" Perhaps Welsh Ministers could provide me with a few staff. The Opposition can always do with staff, because support is thin on the ground for Opposition Members. The staff we have are very able, but perhaps I could apply to Welsh Ministers for more staff, or goods and services, or even accommodation when I visit Wales, because it would appear that such provision is within the ambit of clause 60. Clause 70 is about money. It would give Ministers similar wide powers and I need a decent explanation of it from the Minister. The explanatory notes state:"““This clause gives the First Minister, the Welsh Ministers and the Counsel General the power to give financial assistance (whether by grant, loan or guarantee) to any person engaged in any activity which the Welsh Ministers consider will secure, or help to secure, the attainment of any objective which they aim to achieve in the exercise of their functions. Conditions may be attached to such assistance.””" As if it is not sufficient that under clause 60 Ministers may do anything for anybody who is, in their judgment, furthering the aims in subsection (1)(a), (b) and (c), they can also give money, by way of a grant, loan or guarantee, to anybody, anywhere, who is engaged in any activity that"““Welsh Ministers consider will secure, or help to secure, the attainment of any objective which they aim to attain in the exercise of any of their functions.””" So clause 70 is not even confined to the aims and objectives set out in paragraphs (a), (b) and (c) of subsection (1) of clause 60. Would the provisions cover the granting of mortgages to members of staff? Subsection (2) of clause 70 notes that"““conditions . . . may be attached . . . requiring the repayment of the whole or any part””." It thus appears that Welsh Ministers could decide to be the mortgagors of their own houses or the houses of their staff. They could offer grants to businesses coming to Wales—indeed, any assistance whatever. How will the provisions sit with European legislation on offering grants? Under the Bill, anything that a Minister wanted to do in exercise of his or her functions could be accompanied by giving financial assistance to third parties. Subsection (3) also requires explanation. It states:"““This section applies in relation to the First Minister and the Counsel General as in relation to the Welsh Ministers.””" We have already debated the Counsel General and as I understand it that individual need not be an elected Member of the Assembly—anyone at all could be appointed—yet if the section applies to the Counsel General, that person can give"““financial assistance . . . to any person engaged in any activity which the Welsh Ministers consider will secure, or help to secure, the attainment of any objective which they aim to attain in the exercise of any of their functions””." It seems rather strange that the Counsel General, who is not elected, will have power to dispose of taxpayers’ money. Why is the Counsel General included in subsection (3)? I presume that the words"““This section applies in relation to the First Minister . . . as in relation to the Welsh Ministers””" mean that the First Minister will be able to make similar decisions in relation to Welsh Ministers. If a Welsh Minister required a residence to further his aims, would the First Minister be able to provide the funding from taxpayers’ money, perhaps on advantageous terms? We do not know what conditions would be attached, under subsection (2), to the repayment of any moneys paid out by the First Minister. Will it be a slush fund that allows anybody to have access to any money at any time to do anything that they want? I could be wrong and it will be interesting to hear the Minister’s interpretation of those two clauses, but as they stand, they would pass to the Assembly Government, to Ministers and to a possibly non-elected Counsel General, broad and sweeping powers with no let, stay or hindrance. I have tabled two small and reasonable amendments and if, after I have listened to the Minister, I am not satisfied, I may want to vote on them. On page 35, at line 38 of clause 60, I propose the insertion of the words ““within their powers””, to act as a limit or brake on the provisions. Likewise in clause 70, I propose including the word ““reasonable””, because a test of reasonableness is needed on the wide powers granted under clauses 60 and 70. I am sad that we did not have time to explore those matters in Committee, but I am grateful that we have been able to do so on Report. I very much look forward to what the Minister has to say about the two clauses.