Natural Environment and Rural Communities Bill

I fear that I had not noticed that the noble Baroness, Lady Byford, had sought certain information in some of her questions; for example, on the range of incomes. I apologise, and will write to noble Lords who have spoken on this. The pension provisions are part of the standard arrangements for NDPBs, allowing the Secretary of State to require the CRC to pay pensions to its board members and staff. In practice, of the CRC board only the chairman and deputy chairman are likely to be pensionable appointments. The Cabinet Office requires ministerial governance of pensions, and it will be a condition of entry for the Civil Service pension scheme. Amounts would be calculated on a case-by-case basis. I was asked whether pensions could go beyond the chair or deputy chair. If another person on the board takes on extra responsibility, such as a significant amount of work, several days a week over a prolonged period—perhaps chairing an audit committee—they could be considered. They would be appointed in liaison by the chair and the CEO, who works as the accounting officer. In turn, that would have to be overseen, under Cabinet Office rules, by the Secretary of State. Chair appointments are pensionable in the case of a number of other bodies: the Countryside Agency, the Environment Agency, English Nature and the JNCC. There is provision for a deputy chair position on the board of the Environment Agency, but there are no employer pension contributions as the time worked is less than two days a week. The deputy chair position on the board of English Nature is also pensionable, but the position is currently vacant. I understand that some of the other chairs also have pensionable vacancies. I understand the point raised by the noble Viscount, Lord Eccles, about the possibility of separate personal arrangements being made. That will depend, to a degree, on the type of appointment and remuneration package that is in the public interest, as well as the interest of the individual concerned. I am conscious that other questions have been asked, and will write as comprehensive a reply as I may. In answer to one of the important points of the noble Baroness, Lady Byford, my understanding—and I will correct this if I am wrong—is that the question of other NDPBs was considered at the time that individual appointments were considered. To a great extent, it must be a personalised package because circumstances differ. I agree, rather sadly, with the noble Earl, Lord Peel. I, too, had many friends and colleagues in local government who gave full-time service for many years and never had a pension of their own. I do not believe they should be so deeply out of pocket as a result of service to the community. I never met anybody who went into local government for the money; I met people who lost money by being in it. That was my experience.