Natural Environment and Rural Communities Bill

I am grateful for the support that I received from the noble Baroness, Lady Miller of Chilthorne Domer. I am always glad to have the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Judd. On this occasion, I do not necessarily agree with him, which is not surprising. I know that we are looking to the future so I should not be pessimistic, but experience suggests that training has sometimes been offered in-house which is not as cost-effective. The Minister’s response to me was that work would be commissioned or provided when doing so was cost-effective. Somebody, presumably Natural England, has to make a decision on that. I certainly hope that the board of Natural England will think a bit about how it goes about its practical business in that way. Outside organisations could bring a wealth of additional experience to the concept of what the non-departmental body will achieve, which is very important, and I certainly do not wish to see them excluded. Although the Minister is shaking her head and saying that they are not—I accept that, because I always listen most carefully to the noble Lord, Lord Judd, and accept what he says—I do not think it amiss that we have had our very short discussion on it, so that both avenues might be kept open. All of us want to ensure two things: that it is cost-effective, and that the advice sought—or the training given—is of the highest quality. When I asked Defra—I think within the last year—how many consultants or advisers it had within the department, it was unable, as a body, to tell me. That is a fairly sobering thought, which I hope Natural England will bear in mind when it is established. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. [Amendments Nos. 190 and 191 had been withdrawn from the Marshalled List.] Clause 10 agreed to. Clause 11 [Power to charge for services and licences]: