Jobseeker’s Allowance (Jobseeker Mandatory Activity) Pilot Regulations 2005

My Lords, I am grateful to both noble Lords for their general welcome for the regulations being proposed tonight. I shall try to answer the main points made by the noble Lords. I think we are hitting the right target. It is clear that a large number of people are on JSA at six months. For people aged 25 plus, it is a long wait for New Deal to come into operation at 18 months. It makes sense to see whether, during the crucial six month period before demotivation can set in, this short, three-day course and the three follow-up interviews will have a positive impact on the ability of those people to find work. As far as incapacity benefit is concerned, the noble Lord knew the answer I would give. We are busily working on the Green Paper. It is a substantive point that the pathway to work pilots involve a strong interventional process of advice being given by personal assistants together with incentives. I would like to think that some of the principles are the same and that we can learn from each programme. As we take forward the general reform of incapacity benefit, we will be anxious to see, and pick up on, early results from the pilot programme that I am bringing before the House tonight. The noble Lord will know that I agree with him about the dignity of work. The whole welfare to work programme is predicated on that philosophy. For some unfathomable reason, his party does not seem to approve of New Deal. None the less, the figures show that many individuals have got into work through the New Deal process. We believe and support its concept, principles and practice. If, at the six-month period, this short intervention can ensure that more people get back into work at that time, and therefore do not flow into New Deal at a later stage, that would be a very positive outcome indeed. The figure of 31,400 to which I referred was the number of people coming onto the pilots on a monthly basis. The number of people that we expect to be covered by the pilots when they are up and running is 76,500. As regards the use of the word ““appropriate””, that is the appropriate discretion given to the Secretary of State which is necessary in the context of the pilot scheme. As regards people moving, we would expect these regulations to be applied sensibly. Clearly, if someone was moving out of the pilot area, we would expect that the local people concerned could handle that with discretion. The noble Lord is right that the use of the word ““appropriate”” allows that discretion to be exercised by responsible officers from my department. The pilots will be located in Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire, Surrey, Sussex, Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire, Cheshire, Warrington, Cumbria, south-east Wales, Staffordshire, West Yorkshire, Lancashire, East Dunbartonshire and south London. The aim has been to get a broad balance in terms of demography and employment circumstances. The pilots will be matched with other districts with the same demographic and employment characteristics to see how they compare. In a sense, that is the necessary control. On the evidence, I am happy to write to the noble Lord with chapter and verse. The fact is—it certainly seems to be the case with a number of benefits—that after a period of six months it becomes much more difficult for people to get back into work. If there is this long lead time between the six-month period and the period when New Deal kicks in it makes sense to see whether these pilots actually show us a way forward. Clearly if they work, that would have enormously positive implications for how we would want to develop that in the future. There will not be a variation in the way sanctions will be used. I must admit that I thought my honourable friend in the other place had been enormously persuasive in his arguments. Let me just say to the noble Lord that my department has undertaken a review of the sanction regime. We will be publishing a research report in the new year and I would be happy to discuss that with both noble Lords then. Emerging conclusions and, indeed, our own evidence so far, suggest that essentially the principle of sanctioning is generally understood by our customers and thought to be fair. It is part of the rights and responsibility duties. Sanctions are applied to only about 4 per cent of claimants of JSA. My understanding is that once a sanction has been applied, 70 per cent of customers to whom that sanction has been applied do not have to have sanctions applied to them again. I think that that is pretty persuasive stuff. But, as I say, I would be very interested to discuss that further with noble Lords if they would care to talk to me about it in the new year. The valuation will be conducted by Sheffield Hallam University. It will look at the statistics. Obviously it will be very interested to look at any increases in flows coming off the unemployment figures. It will be looking at which pilot activity particularly affects behaviour and what could inform good practice. It is in everyone’s interest that this is both objective and practical. My understanding is that the qualitative research will be available in around March 2008 and that the quantitative research will be available in around June 2008. We will be publishing the results of that research. Of course I hope that it will become self-evident, as with Pathways to Work, that this pilot has been the right approach. We hope that we will have learnt from it that there are techniques, devices and support that can be given to people at an early stage, which we can use in everyday practice. But of course that must await the introduction of the pilots and we will have to see how they go. I hope I have answered the points and that the House will support these regulations. On Question, Motion agreed to.