Health Bill

On the basis of the research that the Select Committee has seen so far on the efficacy of ventilation systems, in terms of both cost-effectiveness and practicalities, I am not convinced that that can be achieved—not least because the level of air change required for the achievement of the necessary safety standards would be high enough to make patrons uncomfortable. It is likely to be really effective only when the bar is empty, which rather defeats the purpose. A disproportionate amount of time and money will be invested in defining, and then enforcing, the exemptions. The more complex the regulatory system, the greater will be the burden on business and the cost to consumer and taxpayer. As we have heard, the Health Committee has received evidence from the hospitality trade, the Health and Safety Executive and local authority enforcement officers. They all agree that a partial ban will be more expensive to enforce. During the Committee’s visit to Dublin earlier this month, it was clear that the ban in the Republic was working well. One reason is that it is easily understood and, as a result, largely self-enforcing. Compliance is currently 94 per cent. Enforcement action has been necessary, but in only a small number of cases. The Secretary of State cited experience in Norway as evidence that comprehensive bans do not come along in one go, but must come along in stages. In Norway, however, the partial ban was abandoned in favour of a comprehensive ban because it was proving unfair, unpopular and unenforceable. As my hon. Friend the Member for Northavon (Steve Webb) said, why should we make the same mistakes in this country and then implement a full ban later? The fact of devolution should not mean that Ministers in Westminster ignore the lessons from Edinburgh and Cardiff—and, indeed, from non-devolved Belfast. Why should Health Ministers in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland be wrong and Health Ministers in England be right? It has been suggested that Ministers here feel that England is not yet ready for a comprehensive ban. Even if we accept that argument, however, surely it is the Government’s duty to act on the basis of scientific evidence. Let me respond briefly to points made by the hon. Member for Lewisham, Deptford and the right hon. Member for Charnwood (Mr. Dorrell). Surely the choice is between comprehensive and comprehensible legislation after we in the House of Commons have debated and framed the law, or allowing the courts to drive bans through by means of individual decisions under health and safety legislation or precautionary steps taken by employers. I do not consider that a satisfactory basis on which to proceed. We should be legislating in a comprehensive fashion. During the Select Committee’s visit to Dublin, I was struck by how quickly public opinion had moved on in the Republic. There is now a tangible sense of pride at what has been done in Ireland. The Irish Government saw the need and gave a lead, and that is what should happen here. Public opinion in England is moving and it is time for the Government to move as well, not least on the issue of exemption for bars that do not serve food. Of the 41,833 people who responded to the Department’s questionnaire, more than 90 per cent. said that there was no basis on which they would accept such an exemption. The Secretary of State has achieved an unusual feat. At the same time as dividing the Cabinet, she has managed to unite ASH and the British Beer and Pub Association in opposition to a partial ban. Public opinion in England is already more supportive of a comprehensive ban than was the Republic of Ireland before its introduction there. There can be no doubt that a partial ban will widen health inequalities, as a number of Members have pointed out. According to a survey by ASH, following a partial ban two out of five pubs would close their kitchens permanently and adopt non-food status so that they could allow smoking. Last Thursday, when the Health Committee took evidence from the chief medical officer, Sir Liam Donaldson, I asked for his professional opinion on a partial as opposed to a comprehensive ban in terms of health inequalities and outcomes. He said"““It . . . signals to the public that a drink and a smoke go hand-in-hand when all the efforts on smoking and tobacco control have been aimed at de-normalising smoking””." He said that it put Britain among the laggards of public health policy internationally rather than among the global leaders. Laggards not leaders: that must surely be the consequence of ignoring the chief medical officer’s compelling advice. When I intervened on the Secretary of State earlier, I mentioned the regulatory impact assessment. The detailed tables show that the difference between a partial and a comprehensive ban is 200 preventable deaths a year. The idea of exempting pubs that do not serve food is ill-conceived. It is a classic case of doing what is expedient rather than what is right. Health policy should be evidence-based, not evidence-blind. I agree with the chief medical officer that when it comes to the question of freedom, the smoker’s right to smoke stops at my nose.