Compensation Bill [HL]

My Lords, I am extremely grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Goodhart and Lord Hunt, for the time that they have given me already in discussing these issues, and I thank the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, for attending at least in part the conference that we had on the issues. I know that the noble Lord had to come back to do a pensions debate in your Lordships’ House. I am also grateful to my noble friend Lord Brennan and the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, for speaking in the gap. I looked slightly startled because I did not know that either noble Lord was going to speak, but I am grateful that they did, particularly as the noble and learned Lord, Lord Ackner, was not able to be with us this evening. I am sure that the noble and learned Lord will engage with us in Committee, and I will of course ensure that I discuss the issues with him. This is a timely Bill, not a premature one—the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, will not be surprised to hear me say that. In a sense, it was reflected in the comments of the noble Lords, Lord Hunt and Lord Lucas, in particular about the regulation of claims farmers. The noble Lord, Lord Lucas, also spoke about the issues that concern organisations trying to provide opportunities, particularly for our young people. It is important to stress what I said in my opening remarks about it being part of a wider set of objectives for the Government and a wider piece of work. I chair a ministerial working group of nine Ministers representing nine departments, including the Department for Education and Skills, the Department of Health and the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister, which is concerned with the role of local government. All of us are committed to addressing the different aspects of the issues. We meet regularly to ensure that our work is joined-up and to address the different issues that affect different parts of our society. We also have a number of stakeholder groups. I place on record my sincere thanks to those from the consumer organisations and from the industry who have willingly given of their time to help us to deal with some of the important issues—not least rehabilitation, as the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Wirral, knows. My noble friend Lord Hunt of Kings Heath was with me for the opening of the debate to demonstrate the commitment from the Department for Work and Pensions, where he and I jointly chair the work on rehabilitation, and I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, that it is an important part of the work. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, that the Select Committee is aware that the Bill is in the House. I discussed it with the chairman of the committee, the right honourable Alan Beith, who was more than happy that we should continue with the passage of the Bill. I believe that I will appear before the committee in January, but the Select Committee has no difficulty with us continuing with the Bill, and, as the noble Lord will accept, I have ensured that we are not in any way seen to be behaving inappropriately by the Select Committee. I would not dare do so with the right honourable gentleman as chairman. I have also indicated that I take fully on board the report of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. It is always my desire to ensure that we deal with the issues, and I commit that we will address appropriately all the points raised by the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. I will come on to talk about Part 2 in more detail. We sought to provide flexibility in the Bill to enable us to move swiftly to address questions. The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, made a good point about ensuring that we did not delay but moved as quickly as we could. Noble Lords have indicated that Clause 1 is an important part of the Bill, and I already sense differing views on it. I begin where the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, took us, which is the issues that concern the organisations trying to provide opportunities particularly, although not exclusively, for our young people. We looked at research by Volunteering England, which found that increased concern about the risk of litigation was having an impact on the number and roles of volunteers. One in five organisations in the research reported that people had stopped volunteering for them because of fears about risk and liability, with more than a quarter of them saying that volunteers had been deterred from volunteering by concern over those issues. Those fears may be out of proportion and based on inaccurate perceptions, but they are very real. We sought to recognise those issues in Clause 1 and to provide much-needed reassurance—particularly though not exclusively to the voluntary sector—to those who are concerned about possible litigation. The law takes the social value of activities into account, and people will not be found liable if they adopt reasonable standards and procedures. The noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, is right when he says that it is about reflecting the existing law, and that is the guidance given by the higher courts. We have tried to balance on the one hand those who feel strongly that we need to put something in legislation that makes it clear that good activities being undertaken by organisations should not be penalised and that we recognise what goes on in those activities while on the other hand recognising that we are not trying to hamper what the courts do very well—dealing with those issues properly. We think that we have struck the right balance. I have said that it is a beautifully formed Bill—I have no doubt that I will come to regret those words. However, I feel strongly, as we go through Committee, that we have tried to reflect the balance and we have worked hard with Clause 1 to put that balance in. It is not a clause that will be easily amendable, nor indeed one that I can do much with. I will seek to explain—in better detail than I can at Second Reading—how we got to where we got to and why we think that this will work. We hope that it will discourage the bringing of claims based on the proposition that reasonable care involves all steps required to prevent accidents in any conceivable circumstances, regardless of the effect of requiring those steps. We hope that it will set out a balance that says that there are things that one wishes to do and that the courts may take those into account. I agree as well with the concern of the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, that, although in the Bill we seek to deal with the issue of claims farmers, a big part of the work in government is to ensure that those with justifiable claims are able to get those claims as quickly and easily as possible. A big piece of work under way considers how we look at the claims process and whether we can streamline it and deal with it better, to enable people who have claims to get those claims as swiftly as possible. I hope that I dealt with some of the issues that the noble lord, Lord Goodhart, raised in our discussions this month in my letter to him. I hope that he will forgive me if I do not go into too much detail on the issues; in a sense, he was marking my card for Committee. I will make sure, though, that noble Lords who have spoken in this debate will have a copy of the letter that I wrote to the noble Lord. I covered quite a number—though I am sure not all—of those issues.