Terrorism Bill

Not under these proposals. However—again, I emphasise the point, because it was raised with me by the Home Affairs Committee—we are ready to look at that if positive proposals are made in this area. But I must say again, and emphasise it very strongly, that we are talking about a tiny number of cases under very deep judicial scrutiny throughout the whole process that operates here. That point was made in interventions earlier, and it is the key point. The position of my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall, North is clear and his point was well put. In this serious matter, all of us—every single Member, accountable to their own electorate and constituents—has to weigh the relationship between the operational and professional advice we have had from the police and prosecutors, which takes a certain direction; the issues of principle, which motivate many of us in different ways, and possibly in ways that will be different for different people in the way that they operate; the safeguards that I say I am ready to talk about in respect of how we move forward; and, of course, the issues of politics. Politics should not be too much a part of this. It is always part of what we do, by definition, and it is a great thing—[Interruption.] There is nothing wrong with that; I very much agree. We are in politics, and it is a worthy and noble life. That is what we should do. I hope that the politics here is the fundamental elected representational politics of the relationship between us—all of us, from whatever party—and our communities and the people we have to deal with. I hope that people will talk to their own communities about these issues as the Bill goes through the House. The crux of the matter is the issue of the maximum period for which it should be possible to detain a person. As the Committee will be well aware, the Bill extends the maximum duration for which a terrorist suspect may be detained prior to charge from 14 days to three months. I emphasise that the Government believe, and I believe, contrary to some assertions, that there is a compelling case—the word ““compelling”” was one used by the hon. Member for Winchester (Mr. Oaten) on Second Reading—which is strongly supported by the police, for change in the interest of offering the best possible protection for the people of this country. At the service yesterday in St. Paul’s, I talked to people who suffered from the bombs in London. I can tell the Committee that they want protection so that this kind of thing does not happen again. We all want that, but we have to think how to do it. That is why the police, by the way, have come to their view. They are thinking, ““How can we do it? What should we do? How should we address this going forward?”” That is why they have made the proposal. I remind the Committee that the factors in consideration include the need to intervene early in terrorist cases; the complex and international nature of the networks; the volume of material; and the increasing use of technology such as encryption and computers. The case for an extension was set out clearly some considerable time ago, and we have published it fully. Despite what the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath) said about the clause stand part debate, I believe that there is now widespread recognition in the House that an increase beyond 14 days is necessary. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall, North for acknowledging that in his amendment. There is also a growing understanding, although I know that the Liberal Democrats in particular do not accept it, that the alternative solutions put forward do not solve the problems. We must face up to the time issue in a direct way. I acknowledge, however, that the House has not reached a consensus on the Government’s proposal to increase the maximum period to three months. My view is that we ought to seek consensus because we need the strength of a consensus decision, as I have described. I regard the police case as persuasive—I think that it is the right case—but I must also acknowledge the fact that many people have expressed strong reservations. My view is that the issues should be resolved in the House. My proposal, which I ask my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall, North to accept if he is ready to do so, is that we engage in urgent discussions with colleagues on both sides of the House to see whether we can reach consensus on a figure of more than 14 days. On that basis, we would bring forward a Government amendment on Report containing whatever that agreed figure was. Of course, if agreement could not be reached, the amendments now before the House could also be tabled on Report for debate. In the trade-off between the protections and safeguards that I described and the length of time, however, I believe that genuine discussion across the House is beneficial. I do that in a spirit of flexibility and openness. I also believe that all Members would benefit from another week to discuss the issues with constituents, local police, local community organisations, and perhaps the mosques in a given constituency. Parliament will do its job better if those discussions take place.