Terrorism Bill

Again, we have trawled over this ground to a large extent, but the offence has two limbs: the making of a statement and the likely effect on the audience. If someone says that they could not reasonably fail to understand or appreciate the effect of a statement on the audience, that is a fair test about the circumstances in which they make that statement. I think that I went through with my hon. and learned Friend last week the number of hurdles that we would have to overcome to bring a successful prosecution, and the provision will be even tighter now. Someone must have an intention or be reckless, and there is an objective test of recklessness. The statement must be likely to encourage others. There must be a realistic prospect of conviction. The prosecution must be in the public interest and the Director of Public Prosecution’s consent is needed. For my hon. and learned Friend simply to make a statement with which someone could empathise or sympathise without knowing or being reckless in its effect on the audience does not fit the definition and formulation that we propose. With respect, he is stretching the definition and the circumstances to an untenable extent if he examines the current formulation. I know that he does not like the whole principle of the clause, but he is stretching things beyond the bounds if he is saying that he understands why people might find themselves in that kind of mindset. That will not make him fall foul of such a criminal prosecution.