Racial and Religious Hatred Bill

My Lords, I sense that consensus is spreading; it is infectious. I am delighted that the Government have decided to accept the infrastructure which is now the Bill. To have the proposed new religious hatred offences set out clearly in their own schedule to the 1986 Act and not lumped as an add-on to existing racial offences is an important step forward. I welcome the Government’s concession on that. We can certainly proceed to deal on that basis. The change makes it much easier to understand what is proposed in the Bill. It gives us a great opportunity to get the proposals absolutely right. The change means that we can move on to those other three areas, which I will deal with briefly. The first is the ““likely”” limb, as it is now termed. The Minister should be aware that this is a very important point for a range of my noble friends and other noble Lords. On this side of the House we feel strongly that it is important to have the burden of proof where it is: in the Bill, as amended. We are not dogmatic about that, but we feel the need for reassurance about the likelihood of frivolous or vexatious charges being brought under this legislation, or certainly being investigated under it. We do not believe that the original Bill was watertight. I hope that the burden of proof will be firmly on the prosecution. The other main question is the nature of threatening, insulting and—in the middle—abusive behaviour. It is important that we recognise that on this side of the House we are deeply uncomfortable with the notion that causing a sense of insult could, of itself, involve the transmitter in the sort of legal proceedings we are talking about. Insult is in the mind of the insulted person, after all. That is such an important point. If the bar is set so low, the belief rather than the believer is unquestionably being protected. That truly would be a new ““right not to be offended””. As it stands, ““threatening”” is much more ad hominem but I look forward to discussing that point with the Minister. Finally, on the freedom of expression clause, I detect a willingness on the part of Ministers to accept what is in the Bill. After all, we have merely put into legislation what the Government have always said. Now to see freedom of expression so clearly set out is a huge advance. The amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes of Cumnock, would rip the heart out of the Bill in its amended form. I know that Hearts are very dear to the noble Lord, even in these troubled times, and I hope that he will not force this matter to a vote. Everybody will have their own view on what imperfections there may be in the new freedom of expression clause but as I have pointed out, it does no more than embody what Ministers have been saying all along. I welcome what the noble Baroness, Lady Scotland of Asthal, has said, although I have a great deal of sympathy with my noble friends who asked for more time. We probably do need more time, whether by means of a recommitment, as my noble friend Lord Skelmersdale suggested, or simply a period of more open discussion. We need to argue our way through this situation rather than take entrenched positions. However, I very much welcome the noble Baroness’s expressions of view today.