Racial and Religious Hatred Bill

My Lords, first, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, for giving us an opportunity to see where we are. Secondly, I thank the Minister for suggesting that we should now, to use her phrase, ““find a middle way””. I am not sure exactly what that means. I prefer to see it as an intention to seek a level of consensus. That is certainly the right way forward and we will do everything that we can to join with the Government and the many noble Lords with very strong views about how we should proceed. We will certainly do everything we can to assist in meeting the objective that the noble Baroness, Lady Scotland, set out. I particularly welcome her statement that nothing is set in stone. That was very important, because in Committee noble Lords reached a decision that was very much an expression of opinion—indeed, to coin her view, they comprehensively disagreed. We reached a decision that has been communicated to the Government and that is the way to produce good legislation—to have a Government who listen and then seek to find the right way forward. I agree with my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay that one of the most important objectives in all this is to look at the various areas of legislation that are now proposed—he referred to the glorification of terrorism, but there are parts of the Equality Bill and other current legislative proposals which we have to see in context. I share the noble Baroness’s wish to find some way through. I strongly agree with the noble Lord, Lord Wedderburn, that we must pay attention to what was said by the Labour Party in its manifesto, but, as I have pointed out previously, the manifesto was clear in its commitment to seek,"““how best to balance protection, tolerance and free speech””." That, I hope, is how this House has approached the problems before us. I agree with the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Oxford that, in many ways, robust exchanges take place in the context of religion but I prefer the view of my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern that in fact they are very separate. The right reverend Prelate was not so convinced, but I hope that I will have the opportunity of persuading him.