Racial and Religious Hatred Bill

My Lords, I do not propose to suggest that the Minister has not yet finally sat down. Her intervention was by leave of the House to respond to the desire of the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes of Cumnock, for information, which she acceded to. The matter is now open and any noble Lord who wishes to may make a contribution. The proposal to continue negotiations in the hope of reaching a settlement and then bringing that forward to Third Reading is perfectly appropriate. I welcome that as a way forward. It is far preferable to seeking confrontation with the other place. I have never found that attractive except in the most exceptional circumstances. I am anxious about a matter that I have raised on several occasions and which so far the Minister has not addressed. That is now further focused by the Government’s proposal to have an offence concerned with the glorification of terror. My understanding—though I may be subject to correction—is that that generally takes place in the context of some religious faith or doctrine. Terror is glorified through the application of that doctrine to the circumstances in which we are now placed. If that is correct there is a danger—unless the language is very accurate—that the Bill in its previous form would cast the protection of criminal law round the glorification of terror in the context of religious belief. This matter needs to be dealt with carefully if the two matters that I have referred to are not to be confused and the relationship between them damaged. The other point that I wish to make, because it has been raised by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Oxford, relates to the relationship between race and religion. I am one of those who think that there are substantial differences between the two and I see no reason why religion should be dealt with separately from race, so long as it is dealt with appropriately. One thing that needs to be said about religion is that it may inculcate practices that are themselves hateful. That may well be a matter of judgment, but it certainly is possible; whereas one would not expect that to be a consequence of race by itself. So there is room for considerable difference between the two, and merely separating them in the Bill does not seem to pose any problem in dealing appropriately with religion as well as with race.