Racial and Religious Hatred Bill

The proposal that, if the Government are willing genuinely to think again, the amendments may not be pressed is reasonable. On the other hand, we await the response of the noble Baroness. I am delighted that she is able to be back with us again. First, there is absolutely no doubt that the Bill is not dependent only on intention. The Home Secretary was asked about that at Second Reading. At first, in reply to a question, he said that intent was crucial, but, when he was taken up on the matter a little later, he pointed out that there was an additional provision in the Bill that did not require intention. Therefore, in my view, it is not strictly speaking an incitement to religious hatred. The amendments would create that. One difficulty about how the Bill is constructed is that Ministers have said to me and to others that the Bill is about protecting believers, not belief. The problem is that if you insult my beliefs and I am a real believer, you insult me thereby. It is difficult to make that distinction in relation to insult or abuse. It is much easier to make it in relation to threatening language. That is why the word ““threatening”” is the centrepiece of the amendment. The Home Office has kindly sent out indications about the guidance that would be given on the Bill if enacted. In reference to a point made by the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, last time, I notice that the Home Office memorandum states that consultation will be carried out about guidance and so on. It says that among the people who will be consulted are bodies representing the main faith communities. Involved here are communities other than the main faith communities—those who are interested can see how the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, described them at Second Reading but I shall not repeat that now. We must remember that people have all kinds of religious beliefs. There is an important religious belief that no less an authority than the Prime Minister described as a perversion of Islam. Is it intended to cover and give the protection of the criminal law to that, if the Bill becomes law? If not, why not?