Charities Bill [HL]

I thank in particular the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, for his support. He said that he should like to see a number of aspects of the amendment changed. Perhaps we could meet to talk about that between now and the next stage of the Bill. As the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, pointed out in his second intervention, the Parliamentary Ombudsman will not act until all the procedures through the courts are completed. Small charities physically cannot afford that; they do not have the money. Therefore, justice will not be done, and it certainly will not be seen to be done. The noble Lord, Lord Bassam, said that there was co-operation between the independent complaints reviewer and the commission—of course there is. The independent complaints reviewer, as I said before, is appointed by the Charity Commission on terms agreed with the commission. The independent complaints reviewer can be removed by the commission, and his recommendations can be set aside by the commission. That just does not seem right. However, the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, gave a long and detailed response to the amendment. Therefore, as a matter of good manners, I shall withdraw the amendment now so that I have a further opportunity to study what he said. I am very likely to come back at the next stage, and I may even consider pressing it to a Division if the Minister is still as recalcitrant as he is this evening. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Schedule 3 agreed to. Schedule 4 [Appeals and applications to Charity Appeal Tribunal]: