Road Safety Bill [HL]

Yes. But then you have the problem of a teenager without any money in his pockets looking at how he is going to get home. We have had a useful and wide-ranging debate about seat belts. In response to the call of the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, that the Government should take seriously his amendment, I should tell him that we of course take all amendments very seriously. I hope to have some positive news for him extremely shortly. As to who should be responsible for 14 and 15 year-olds, I understand the concern of noble Lords that the police should be able to deal with children who do not use their seat belts. That is why the current law makes the driver responsible for those under 14 and the matter can be dealt with under the fixed penalty procedure. However, the question of responsibility for tackling offences committed by those under 16 raises wider issues than those related to seat belt offences. The Government believe that this matter should be considered as a whole and not in a piecemeal way, offence by offence. It would be unwise therefore to change existing requirements until we have had an opportunity properly to consider the ramifications across all government departments. However, I understand that the Home Office is willing to take this issue forward, which is a very positive and serious response from the Government. I cannot be more prescriptive today than that but, as I said, our understanding is that the Home Office is willing to look at this and take it forward. In the mean time, the present penalties apply. By virtue of Schedule 3 to the Road Traffic Offenders Act   1988 a seat belt offence may be dealt with by the fixed penalty procedure. However, in accordance with guidance set out in Home Office circular 92/85, it is police policy not to issue fixed penalty notices for failure to wear a seat belt to 14 and 15 year-olds. I can assure the Committee that this does not mean that the police cannot deal with juveniles. In exercising their judgment they take whatever action they think appropriate. In many cases they will aim to educate drivers. The police feel that it is more important to hammer home the message of why it is important for young people to wear their seat belts. But if the police consider that the circumstances justify greater action, they may issue a summons to require a young person to appear in court, where the normal penalty for seat belt wearing offences would apply—a fine of up to a maximum of £500. As to the issue of licence endorsement, while I do not   doubt the importance of the intentions behind the   amendment, the Government consider that the endorsement of licences with penalty points should be reserved for the most serious driving offences. While we are in no way complacent, we are pleased to say that in Britain we already have what we consider—and I take the point of the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw—to be very high seat-belt wearing rates; that is, more than 93 per cent of people in the front seats of cars, a similar level for children in the rear of cars but a lower level for adults—65 per cent—in the rear of cars. In view of this, the Government believe that the proposed level 2 fine of £500 is right for this offence. A level 3 fine of £1,000 and endorsement for those convicted in court is simply too high and would put the offence on a par with unlicensed driving, speeding and traffic light offences. We believe that the best approach is to continue to educate drivers about the importance of seat belts, supported by police enforcement as appropriate. The Committee may wish to know that in England and Wales the police issued 145,000 fixed penalties in 2003 and took some 5,000 cases to court for seat-belt wearing offences. The noble Baroness, Lady Gardner, asked about black cab drivers. Our understanding is that black cab drivers are not liable for their passengers if there is a partition between themselves and the passenger. That I believe covers the points made to me, although during the debate a number of concerns were raised. The £30 fixed penalty fine is the standard fine level for all non-endorsable offences. If seat-belt wearing offences were to become endorsable, the level would automatically rise to £60. The Home Office keeps penalties under review to ensure that fine levels remain appropriate and would, of course, consult on any proposals to change them.