Welsh Governance

That was a spiffing performance, if I may say so. The hon. Gentleman asks about a referendum, but he wants to abolish the Assembly altogether. The Tory leader in the Assembly wants it to have more legislative powers, so he will presumably back the White Paper. Moreover, the Leader of the Opposition is apparently unable to make up his mind—he does not know what to say about this issue. I can tell the hon. Gentleman, since he asked, that we will call a referendum only if there is a consensus for one. There is no consensus for one now, and it would be lost. There is no case for holding a referendum until at least into the next decade—if a consensus exists then. I can tell the hon. Gentleman that a multi-option preferendum, which is the policy of the Tory party, may be the best way of sorting out the party leadership contest, but is not the best way of determining the future governance of Wales. The hon. Gentleman asked what was the difference between an Order in Council and a Bill. I should have thought that, as an experienced parliamentarian who has served in at least one Parliament, he would understand that. The Order in Council will of course be able to be subject to scrutiny in advance. There is a period during which it can be laid before both Houses of Parliament. The Assembly will bid for a particular policy or modification of legislation, and will have to specify in great detail what its legislative modifying effect might be. The House will then have an opportunity to vote under the normal affirmative resolution procedure. I think that this is a much more streamlined procedure, which will be better for the House of Commons with its crowded legislative programme, and better for the Assembly as well. The hon. Gentleman asked whether there were any proposals to change the number of Welsh Members of Parliament. The answer is no, and I will explain why. The settlement that I propose is very different from that which operates in Scotland, where tax-varying powers exist and there is control over policing and criminal justice, and a number of other matters. That does not apply to the policy in the White Paper, which is confined to the existing settlement—[Interruption.]